WASHINGTON, D.C. (Press Release) — National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan joined American Jewish Committee’s (AJC) Global Forum for a conversation on Tuesday, June 11, with CEO Ted Deutch on Israel – U.S. relations, the Israel-Hamas war, and the future of the Middle East.
A partial transcript of today’s conversation is available below.
DEUTCH — A week and a half ago, the President laid out a three-phase deal that Israel had presented to Hamas aimed at releasing now 120 hostages including, as you know, eight Americans who have been held in Hamas captivity for 249 days, possibly ending the war. I know we were all thrilled to hear the news that four hostages were rescued by the IDF on Saturday morning – an operation that was supported by the United States.
So, the President’s been clear, you have been clear, and, thanks to U.S. leadership, the Security Council has been clear that Hamas needs to agree to this deal. You’ve also been clear that Hamas can never be able to carry out another October 7 and that Hamas cannot remain in power in Gaza. The President’s speech wasn’t as direct. So I have two questions.
One: is it still the administration’s position to ensure that Hamas does not remain in power?
And two: if a deal is reached, what could that then lead to as we look beyond this immediate moment?
SULLIVAN: Well, first, the answer to your question is yes. And in fact, in the President’s remarks on May 31, he explicitly said that the path forward is a Gaza where Hamas is no longer in power. That was in the speech that he gave. He was clear. He was direct about that. His view is that if we get into a deal, and we work through the phases that we can end up with an interim security enterprise, an interim governance enterprise that can lead to a Gaza that is no longer a platform for terror, and from which no attacks of the sort that we saw on October 7 can ever be conducted again against Israel, where the Palestinian people can live in dignity and security and where the Israeli people can know that Gaza will not be a platform for terror that can threaten innocent people in Israel going forward.
DEUTCH: And if Hamas accepts this deal, what does that mean over the coming days and weeks both with respect to Gaza and potential other opportunities? What would it mean for the current situation with Hezbollah in the north, for example?
SULLIVAN: Well, to start, the most important immediate thing it would mean is that hostages would start coming home. And you know, I see you and so many others wearing the yellow ribbon and the tape with the number of days that these people have been held hostage, including American citizens. I meet with the families very frequently and I feel, sitting with them, the pain and the agony of the uncertainty as they wait and hope for their loved one to finally come home and be reunited with them. And if we get into this deal, and we work through all of the elements of the deal, all of those hostages will come home, including those who have tragically passed away where their bodies will come home so that their families can have a measure of solace and closure. So, I think we should not jump over that critical element of this – something the President has been working for since they were first taken back on October 7.
But as he laid out in his speech, with a ceasefire in place, hostages coming home, a larger strategic opportunity opens for Israel that can be a complete game changer in the years ahead.
First, if we get to a ceasefire in Gaza, we can get to calm in Lebanon and we can work out a diplomatic arrangement where tens of thousands of Israeli citizens can return to their homes and know that they will not be under threat there. We can have a day after in Gaza where the Arab states play a significant role in both stabilizing and reconstructing Gaza so that it is not that platform for terror that it has been in the past.
And we can begin down a pathway of Israel’s full integration into the region including normalization with additional countries, including potentially Saudi Arabia, where the end result is Israel embedded in a regional security architecture that makes it more secure and that helps it work with other countries, including us, countries in the region, countries in Europe, against common adversaries. And if you put all of that together, that’s a pathway that we can build out of a ceasefire and hostage deal. And that’s not years away. That could begin, that work could begin in the days, literally the days that follow that deal coming together and it’s something that we have been relentlessly focused on laying the groundwork for and planting the seeds for and we can essentially harvest those seeds for a more secure, more integrated, more capable Israel flanked by allies, flanked by partners standing up to common enemies. And that is something that the United States, the Biden administration is determined to bring about. And the first step is getting to this deal.
DEUTCH: Well, let me, Jake, let me follow up on the point – the suggestion of potential normalization with Saudi Arabia. AJC has been going to the Gulf for decades and believes, as you do, that normalization with Saudi Arabia would help to transform the region, Israel’s place in the region. It is now June. There’s an election in November. We know that a deal would be transformative, particularly after a Hamas war. Is there a realistic path to normalization before the end of this year?
SULLIVAN: Well, I’ve learned not to make predictions about what might happen in diplomacy and, even more than that, with the Congress. So you know, I’m not going to say one way or another what can or can’t happen. All I can say is, it’s our job to create the best possibility for it to happen as soon as possible. And so we are not going to negotiate against ourselves or self-censor in trying to drive to an outcome here. If the path opens by getting to a ceasefire and hostage deal, we’re going to walk down that path as rapidly as we can and try to do so on a bipartisan basis because we believe that there is bipartisan support for this vision that President Biden has laid out, and we want to work with Members of Congress to see that vision become a reality as fast as possible.
DEUTCH: As we know, there are many who have looked to seize this current moment to delegitimize Israel. Look no further than what happens at the UN, the ICC, the ICJ. While the administration has spoken strongly in support of Israel’s right to self defense, the need for hostages to be released, exercise the veto on the UN Security Council resolutions, and stated how outrageous it is to seek arrest warrants for Israeli officials in parallel with terrorist leaders; let alone the unprecedented security assistance to Israel, the defense of Israel on April 13; the administration also chose to abstain on a more controversial Security Council resolution and has at times expressed public criticism of the actions of the Netanyahu government on humanitarian aid and other issues. There was the decision to withhold the shipment of 2,000-pound bombs and the President’s CNN interview where he said that the policy of unconditional military support for Israel could change. Last week the President said he wasn’t sure Israel wasn’t committing war crimes. We are, of course, concerned by even the appearance of any daylight between the United States and Israel. How would you help us understand this dynamic?
SULLIVAN: Well, first, I’ll start with the United Nations. The United States has stood up and resolutely vetoed in the face of support for resolutions even from our closest allies on the Security Council. Those resolutions that we felt were wrong, were unfair to Israel, and would have put Israel in a bad position. We abstained from a resolution that we judged was not inconsistent with our policy and, more importantly, did not create any challenges for Israel to continue to do what it felt it needed to do to defeat Hamas. And the actions that we have taken, the way we have managed our approach to the Security Council put us in a position yesterday to get 14 countries to vote for and one country to abstain from a clear call on Hamas to take the ceasefire and hostage deal. The UN Security Council coming out and saying it’s on Hamas, they are the ones who are responsible now to step forward, that was not a foregone conclusion. That was work painstakingly done by the Biden administration to both stand up for Israel in New York and to create the kind of diplomatic opening that allows us now to work with the G7, with the quad, and now even the UN Security Council to put the spotlight where it belongs on Hamas. Everyone calling for a ceasefire right now should be saying: “Hamas, it’s your turn. Come do a deal.” So, that’s on that front.
Now more broadly: Israel and the United States are friends. In many ways, we’re family. And President Biden has been absolutely resolute and relentless in showing, not just saying, but showing his support for Israel’s security, the first ever American President to travel to Israel during a time of war. A president who, in an unprecedented way, sent American forces into direct military action to defend Israel against missiles and drones raining down on it, coordinating closely not just with Israel, but building a coalition of countries to do that. Continuing to support Israel in its efforts to go after Hamas to rescue the hostages, to take out terrorist leaders. And we will not back off of that one inch. But we also will speak out when we have concerns as Israel and Israeli leaders have no problem speaking out about the United States when they have concerns with things that we do. And there is nothing inconsistent with that between two democracies, two friends, two family members and having ironclad solid support for Israel and the security and vitality of the Israeli people. And so the President has laid out, and I have laid out, the most fundamental element here, which is that, on the core strategic objective: the enduring defeat of the terrorist threats against the State of Israel, there is absolutely no daylight between Joe Biden and Israel. None. Zero.
The debates are over not the what, not the objective, but rather over tactical issues, over operational issues, over particular steps that we would like to see taken because we think it’s not just in our interest, but frankly, we think it is consistent with Israel’s interests and values too. We’re not going to stop speaking out on those issues, but we believe that anyone who thinks they’re going to effectively drive a wedge between the President and Israel on the core question of Israel security, they have another thing coming.
DEUTCH: Thank you. I think there’s time for one more. The President’s made it clear, very clear that his objective is a two-state solution. What we’ve heard from you and from Secretary Blinken, and from our own contacts, is that a pathway to Palestinian statehood is a necessary condition for Saudi-Israel normalization. At the same time, for reasons heightened by October 7, we know that not only the Israeli government, but the majority of the Israeli public, believes that the creation of a Palestinian state right now would be viewed as nothing more than a reward to Hamas.
AJC has long advocated for two states, but we too share this concern. So, how does the administration plan to overcome the deep and understandable skepticism around the possibility of a two-state solution that exists right now?
SULLIVAN: Well, first, I think it’s important to underscore that President Biden, our administration, our national security team, has been trying to put together this vision of normalization and integration for Israel into the region, which includes as a part of it, a credible pathway to a Palestinian state, long before October 7. So this is not a response to what happened on October 7. This is a strategic opportunity that pre-dated and now is still available, and can deliver for Israel a just fundamentally different level of security and integration that gets after its most fundamental security challenge, the essential fount of so much of the threat to Israel. And that is Iran. And so from the U.S. perspective, when you take a step back and look at the strategic opportunity available to Israel, with Saudi Arabia, with the other Arab states, with a broader concept of regional security architecture, when you think about what opportunity is available to rebuild Gaza, so that it is not the Gaza of yesterday, but the Gaza of tomorrow. All of this rests on the ability of Israel to work on a negotiated basis – it cannot be imposed; it cannot be unilaterally declared by anybody; it has to be on a negotiated basis – working over time towards a Palestinian state that also at the same time, has all of the necessary conditions and guarantees to ensure Israel’s security.
So, from the United States’ perspective, this is by far the most effective way to secure Israel over the long term and to prevail in the long-term contest between friends and adversaries in this region. And we will continue to work with the Israeli Government on this and I recognize that there are deep concerns and worries – not just in the Israeli government, but in the Israeli public – on this issue. And we have to acknowledge that and work to address those concerns. But I believe there’s nothing inconsistent with a credible pathway to a Palestinian state and a long-term secure future for Israel. In fact, I think just the opposite. I think it is part of a comprehensive solution that will leave Israel in a better position tomorrow than it was yesterday and that is what we want to work for.
DEUTCH: Finally, as you carry that vision through, what does that mean for Iran? How does the vision reflect the administration’s commitment to ensuring that Iran cannot continue to destabilize the entire region?
SULLIVAN: Well, first, the President has been absolutely resolute in the proposition that Iran can never obtain a nuclear weapon and we will continue to ensure that that is the case as we go forward.
Second, the President is prepared to take a whole range of actions to push back against Iranian aggression in every theater. And that includes the deployment of military forces to the region: two aircraft carriers, squadrons of fighter aircraft to take on Iranian proxies directly like the Houthis, to defend Israel against direct Iranian attacks, and then to try to, through the enhancement and extension of sanctions on a number of different bases, to try to squeeze the financial flows from Iran to a number of the critical groups, including, by the way, to Hamas. And if you look at the actual history of how Hamas began to get large amounts of resources, that predated the Biden administration, and it’s something that we are working to try to choke off as we go forward. So we recognize at the end of the day, that groups like Hamas and Hezbollah are direct present threats to Israel, but standing behind them is an even larger strategic threat. And we need to be working closely with Israel to contend with that. And just next week after I’m back from a trip to Europe, I will be hosting the next what’s called SCG, the Strategic Consultative Group, with senior Israeli officials across defense, intelligence, national security on the question of how we get a common picture of the threat posed by Iran, and how we respond to it in a joint way, working with other countries as well. So this is something that will remain a fundamental foundational priority of ours as long as President Biden is in office, and we will continue to work closely with Israel so that at the end of the day, we can show that standing together, that threat cannot cow us, cannot back us down, and cannot result in the loss of security to Israel, the United States, or any of our other partners.
DEUTCH: Jake, I just want to make this observation. The fact that the National Security Adviser to the President of the United States chose to come engage in this important conversation on our stage is not only not lost on us, it is deeply appreciated by us. Thank you so much for being with us.
SULLIVAN: Thank you for having me. Appreciate it.
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Preceding provided by the American Jewish Committee (AJC)